rmd | this is fucked up -- ovarian cancer study

this is fucked up -- ovarian cancer study

so, i participated in a "lifestyle factors" study done at the brigham comparing women who've had ovarian cancer and those who haven't. study population was about 2000 women split up into, a bunch who had ovarian cancer, and a bunch who were randomly selected from the general population.

some of the study results are out.

there's apparently a strong correlation between women who have used talcum powder near their nether bits and women who've had ovarian cancer.

in all of my dark "i brought this disease on myself somehow" catholic guilt moments, TALCUM POWDER is really not the thing i expected to be a strong factor.

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Wow. That is fucked up.

yeah. my "you have somehow brought this on yourself" catholic guilt never expected that one.

oh, also, hormonal birth control pills are linked to lower rates of ovarian cancer.

Of course you can just drop from a bunch of other shit from bcp's I think. You are cancer free though now, right? (she says, nervously, afraid she missed some bad news).

yes! i continue to not have cancer any more again. which is good because i'm running out of parts that i'm not using.

the folks doing the study i'd participated in happened to send me a newsletter this week with "here's what we know!" stuff in it.

btw, i'm incredibly impressed at how you're dealing with stuff.

Hmm - so I wonder about the population that uses talcum powder near their "nether bits" and have been on hormonal birth control.

And so glad I've discovered monistat anti-chafe cream. Better than talcum powder IMO in function too.

Correlation is not causation.

Since this is an observational study, and particularly since there's no hypothesis that might explain how the use of talcum powder would cause ovariance cancer it's really not appropriate to infer from this study that using talcum power causes ovarian cancer. It's possible that use of talcum powder is correlated with some other variable that does actually predict ovarian cancer. It's also quite possible that a simple type I error has occured and that this finding is the result of chance. Or, it might be that there really is something in talcum powder that causes ovarian cancer. The approriate response is for physicians and scientists replicate the results and to come up with hypotheses that might explain this result, followed by more carefully controlled studies.

Unfortunately, this is a good example for pointing out two problems. First, the majority of the public doesn't really understand much about statistics and the design of ressearch studies like this one. Second, people who communicate the results of such studies often don't do a good job of communicating the results in ways that the public can understand.

Asbestos is linked to lung cancer because the tiny fibers are an irritant, perhaps the tiny grains of talcum powder has a similar effect.

But the tiny grains of talcum powder aren't likely to make it all the way up to the ovaries...

Er, why not?

Because unlike your lungs (which are constantly moving air in and out so that they can scavange oxygen), the path up to the ovaries isn't nearly as open to the outside world.

Well, once the grains get into that warm moist environment, they could end up travelling just about anywhere, I'd think...

There are basically two ways for the particles to move through the fluid: advection and diffusion. The diffusion of particles of this size through your bodily fluids is way too slow to matter, and advection would require flow upward toward the ovaries, which isn't to be expected, since there's no particular place for the fluid to go once it has reached the ovaries.

http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/cosmetics/talc.htm

Talc is toxic. Talc particles cause tumors in human ovaries and lungs. Numerous studies have shown a strong link between frequent use of talc in the female genital area and ovarian cancer. Talc particles are able to move through the reproductive system and become imbedded in the lining of the ovary. Researchers have found talc particles in ovarian tumors and have found that women with ovarian cancer have used talcum powder in their genital area more frequently than healthy women.

Thanks for the reference- I'm surprised that this has been shown to happen.

"not nearly as open" doesn't mean "not open."

actually, they've found talc in the lymph nodes of women with ovarian cancer. which is in and of itself pretty whacked out.

Woah.. that is pretty whacked out...

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that for a while a lot of talc was unintentionally contaminated with asbestos. I wonder if that's an avenue worth considering as well.

I read something once, somewhere, about OOOH BAD TALCUM POWDER so I quit using that and started using cornstarch powder. Then I noticed baby powder always shrieks that it's TALCUM-FREE! So if it's not good enough for a baby's butt, then I'm not putting it near my snatch.

Or something. Oh, here it is: http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/cosmetics/talc.htm

I think I was more worried about breathing the stuff than putting it in my pants at the time.

Here's the best part:

... today, cosmetic grade talc remains non-regulated by the federal government. This inaction ignores a 1993 National Toxicology Program report which found that cosmetic grade talc, without any asbestos-like fibers, caused tumors in animal subjects.

Does that mean I should stop using talcum powder under mah boobs?

I did use it on my nethers for a little while, then I got an unhappy crotch and the gyn said "don't do that" so I stopped.

it's probably fine for your boobs. or at least not as DOOM MENACING as in your nethers.

i remember being a little girl and when i'd visit with my grandmother (usually once a week), i'd take a bath and she'd set me up with her powderpuff and i'd puff powder on my skin after drying off. it provided pleasant associations with that after bath clean and powder. i am retroactively reconsidering those associations right now.

With firni's link, and talc being related to asbestos, and all the asbestos plaintiffs eventually winning lawsuits....

That is, excuse the language, just WEIRD.

Does the study give any explanatory mechanism? Otherwise it's just a random factoid (correlation, causation, etc.)

Ha, just read the other comments. Wow, and wow again. I'm sorry if this is freaky for you.

Ya know, I'm a skeptic who is particularly irritated by "omg don't use [substance x] cuz it'll like KILL YOUUU" half-truths, but after reading the comments in this thread, I'm tossing any and all talcum powder in my house. Not that I use a lot, but fuckit, cornstarch does the job just as well.

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